Threads Between Us
Threads Between Us is a podcast by University Medical Center of El Paso, inspired by the stories of our healthcare workers, patients, and families, and by the threads woven throughout these experiences that connect us all.
Join us as we follow these threads and discover where they lead.
Threads Between Us
From the Trauma Bay Forward: 33 Years of Nursing with Nancy McGrail
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For our second episode, we sit down with Nancy McGrail, the former Director of University Medical Center of El Paso's (UMC) Emergency Department. Nancy was the first nurse to meet traumatic brain injury survivor Jaclyn Pellicotte when she arrived at UMC after her 2018 car accident, creating a connection that brings our story full circle following Episode 1.
Nancy talks about what led her into nursing, a path that started with the 1970s television show Emergency!. She shares how that childhood interest grew into a career that took her from Memphis, Tennessee, to El Paso.
During the conversation, Nancy reflects on some of the moments that have stayed with her throughout her career, including one of the hardest days she experienced as a leader when the son of a member of her nursing team arrived as a trauma patient. She also discusses the relationships that form in healthcare and how people often cross paths again years later in unexpected ways.
Nancy was also leading the Emergency Department during the Walmart mass shooting on August 3, 2019. She shares what that day was like from her perspective and how it has shaped both her career and her life.
Throughout her 33 years in nursing, Nancy became known for supporting nurses at every stage of their careers, helping them find the role that was right for them, even when that meant realizing the Emergency Department was not the best fit. After her years in emergency medicine and time spent in UMC's Mother-Baby unit, Nancy now serves as Administrative Director of Service Excellence in UMC's Patient Experience Department.
Join us as we continue the story that began in Episode 1 and explore the connections that begin inside a hospital and continue long after patients, families, and caregivers leave the emergency department.
Welcome to Threads Between Us, a podcast by University Medical Center of El Paso. We discovered old photo albums in a storage unit at the hospital, and it took us on a journey through decades of stories. Stories of our healthcare workers and patients, families, and the threads woven throughout that connect us in ways we didn't even realize. We're excited to take this journey with you and discover where these threads lead.
SPEAKER_05And welcome back to Threads Between Us. For our last episode, we heard from UMC traumatic brain injury patient Jaclyn Pellicott, whose life changed forever. And we spoke with one of the nurses who was the first to care for her, Nancy McGrail. And Nancy joins us today. Nancy, welcome. Thank you. We're excited to have you here today, and we talked about those threads that continued to lead us through healthcare. We're connected to our patients, to family members, and other healthcare workers. And Nancy, we heard from you on the last episode, and you're just going to carry us through, and we're excited to hear about your story. So you originally started in the emergency department. You moved to women's services, and then you now work in patient experience. Now you're connected to so many different patients and other coworkers, and we're excited to hear your story today. Thanks for having me. And so, Nancy, can you just take me back? 33 years, I believe, is how long you told me that you've worked in healthcare. Can you take me back to the beginning? What first inspired you to become a nurse? What led you to the emergency department?
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm going to age myself. So the television show Emergency from the 1970s, Dixie was my idol. She was the charge nurse in the emergency room. So that is the reason I went into be a nurse. I cannot remember a time when I didn't want to be a nurse. Like I had no plan B. It was to be a nurse, or I didn't know else I could do. So that's as a small child.
SPEAKER_05And you originally are not from El Paso. Can you tell us where you grew up, maybe where you first started your career in nursing?
SPEAKER_02Yes, I grew up in West Central Illinois on a grain and livestock farm in a very small rural community, about 600 people called Kirkwood, Illinois. And I went to college in Canton, Missouri and graduated there in 1993. My first nursing job was in Quincy, Illinois. I worked on a med surge oncology unit. And then after about a year and a half there, I moved to Memphis, Tennessee, and lived there and worked there as a nurse for 17 years.
SPEAKER_05And was it anything like your TV show?
SPEAKER_02Sometimes it can be. So I mean, no, it was it's I've done so many different areas. So I went from med surge, telemetry. I kind of came to ER mid-career. Um, so I'd been a nurse for a long time when I first came into the emergency department. That which I just kind of stumbled into it as I was a float pool nurse, and I got pulled to the ER one night, and I really liked it, and they really liked me. So they kept requesting me back, and I had a bunch of mentors that mentored me up to be an ER nurse. And then uh in 2010, I made the decision to go downtown Memphis, Tennessee, into one of our inner city emergency rooms. Um, I had been working in the suburbs, and I remember interviewing with the director and her being really puzzled why I was there since I worked in the suburbs. And she's like, Do you understand what kind of patients we have here? And I said, Yes, ma'am, that's why I'm applying. I said, All the critically injured get shipped down here. This is where I want to learn. So, and I worked there for almost two years before we moved to El Paso. And then, so how old were your sons when you moved to El Paso? They were 11, 10, and 7 in 2012.
SPEAKER_05And so I actually was able to speak with one of your sons. And I believe he's your middle son, Hollis. Yes. And he had a message for you. He talked about that time. I asked him, you know, what memory about your mom really sticks out to you? And he said that you've inspired him throughout his entire life and his career. And he brought up that time when you all, when when your your husband was deployed. So I'm gonna play for you just a message from him.
SPEAKER_04But the day that we have dropped my father off for his second tour of duty in Iraq, um, you know, her her getting us in the van and us driving all the way back to Memphis. Um her taking on that commitment to take care of three boys um who, you know, while my dad was on the other side of the plane. That that one um I kind of always think about it, always kind of pops up back into into my uh head every now and then. Uh just really her commitment and her hard work and um not only that, but her kind of bravery, I guess, you know, uh letting my dad go and do something like that.
SPEAKER_05And so Nancy, did you I don't know if you knew that was a memory that that stuck with your son in that way.
SPEAKER_02No, no, I didn't. I actually had pneumonia when I was driving them back to Memphis. I was in the ER the next day. So where you worked, it wasn't it? Yeah, I went to the ER I worked in. Yeah. So my husband, I think we drove back on a Saturday. I had a girlfriend come visit me on Sunday and take a look at me, and she took me straight to the ER. And then my um one of the physicians I worked with said, You need to be admitted. I said, I can't be. I don't have anyone at home. So he's like, I said, My mom's on her way. So this was she was still living at the time. So he got on the phone and talked to my mom and was like, Yeah, I need to make sure that you're gonna be here at least a week. And it was a crazy time.
SPEAKER_05And that's probably something your boys might not even remember or know that.
SPEAKER_02I just thought Pooh was visiting for that's what they called my mom, um, was visiting for a week. How great was that?
SPEAKER_05So let's fast forward now to you moving to El Paso and starting to work at UMC. I know you mentioned when you were working in Memphis that you for those two years that you really got to experience a different kind of patient and traumas that were coming in. So can you talk about just how the transition was to El Paso coming to UMC and those first, I don't know if you can remember the memories, those first days, months arriving here.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So Memphis, we called it the gun and knife show. So our traumas were predominantly penetrating. And when I came to El Paso, it was the exact opposite. There were more blunt traumas. So one of the things that I had to get used to is why were so many people falling off roofs? I didn't realize there was a thing called the swamp cooler. Because living in Tennessee, it's very humid. A swamp cooler would not work in Tennessee. Everyone had refrigerated air. So that was kind of odd that I was I finally asked one day, why are so many people falling off roofs? And they explained the difference to me in different cooling systems. Something so simple.
SPEAKER_05And then building relationships, moving to a new city and your team members here. And I know I was able to speak with your friend and former coworker, Sarah Hereta, and she was telling me just about during that time what really stuck out to her was how you would advocate for other nurses and you would help them, even if maybe the emergency department wasn't the right fit for them. I'm gonna play for you something that she said.
SPEAKER_00When I first started nursing, um, I think I graduated in 07, so it was like kind of like an eat your young kind of career. So when I was brought up, it was like, you know, sink or swim. If you weren't tough, the ER wasn't for you. So when I met Nancy and she became our assistant manager and our director, she had she exposed me to a whole nother view. She was like, hey, nursing isn't all about eating your young. You know, I want to see these girls do well. As a new grad, when you start in a level one, um, sometimes, you know, you're used to seeing the TV shows and you think it's gonna be so much fun. It's like Gray's Anatomy or like ER, and it ends up being a lot of work emotionally, physically. So they would, I would watch Nancy kind of mentored me. She, I was the assistant manager while she was the director. And she kind of showed me that hey, these these girls are are doing well. Um, they're this just isn't the environment for them. She would get with other directors, see what was open, um, talk with the nurses who were already in tears, thinking this is the end of my career, I shouldn't have been a nurse. And Nancy would actually work with the other departments, see what was open, mentor them, and say, hey, maybe the ER wasn't a fit for you, but there's an opening in medSearch, there's an opening in L D. And she was actually able to keep them in the UMC family. And years later, they were still working in the other departments, like total turnaround from tears and thinking that it was the end of their career.
SPEAKER_05Nancy, how does it make you feel just to hear Sarah's perspective of that time?
SPEAKER_02I didn't, I'm I didn't realize I made such an impression. Um, the thing about nursing is there are so many different areas of nursing. And just because it you don't have a good fit in ER or the ICU doesn't mean you're not going to be successful as a nurse.
SPEAKER_05And Nancy, we talk about those connections that you make with your coworkers over time and you go through really traumatic things together. And I know during that period of time, 2018, 2019, you had a lot of pediatric cases that came in, and then it was August 3rd, and one of the pediatric cases hit really close to home for you. Can you just talk about that time and what that was like?
SPEAKER_02Yes. So in 2018, at that time I was director and Sarah was nurse manager. On that day, April 20th, 2018, we're in the office, we hear a level one pediatric trauma um en route. And Sarah and I, hey, we're the pediatric experts here, went immediately to the trauma bay. And it was a very devastating head injury, pelvic injury. It was a a child had been struck by a truck on highway speed. And so um, and anytime you're in a situation, especially if it's pediatric, you're just pulling out all you're throwing everything in, the kitchen sink, everything. You're trying everything. What are we missing? What else can we do? And about 45 minutes into this very prolonged resuscitation of this child, I get someone tapping me on my shoulder and they're saying, This is so-and-so's son. And I realized it was one of my night shift nurses. And I went to Dr. Tyrock and I told him, This is so, this is her son. And we rallied and did everything we possibly could, but he unfortunately he passed away. So I I know she's en route to the hospital. She's been notified by school. And I don't know if you've been in the ED when you're in the trauma bay and you have to walk all the way to the front. Um they said she's here. So I had to walk through the ED. It was eerily quiet. Everyone knew what had happened in the trauma base. Everyone knew. And I'm walking and I see Robert, who's a nurse with Sarah. Uh, he's a psych psychiatric nurse practitioner now. And he's a really big man of faith. I always admired him for that. And I pulled him into this little hallway and I told him what had happened because he's passed away. Can you pray for me and give me strength? Because I have to go, I have to go tell her, right? Sorry, I'm emotional. Quick prayer. I went to the waiting room, got her, and we walked all the way back to the R zone. Didn't say much, and we get into the R zone, and she grabbed me and she said, Why is it so quiet? And I said, he's gone. So we just standing by the icing machine and she shoved me. She's like, You're a liar. And um we stepped in and took her to the bedside, and it was the worst day as a nurse leader, for sure.
SPEAKER_05So and to go through that with someone that you cared about and knew personally, and to have to be the one to deliver that news to her. Yeah, I cannot even wrap my head around the strength that that took to do that. But then the strength that she had. You told me she came back to work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she did. Um, and for her to have that resilience to come back was so like no one's allowed to have a bad day. If she's having an okay day, we're all having an okay day. Because she's had a bad day, she's had a the worst day of her life. So it personally impacted me. Like, hey, you're not allowed to feel sorry for yourself. Nuh-uh. If someone like that can go get through a tragedy like this, this minor inconvenience that's bothering you today is nothing.
SPEAKER_05So and for you to say that that was one of the worst days in your career, to fast forward getting to reunite with her in a different way that was outside of the ED, outside of trauma, outside of that moment, but still within our hospital walls. Can you talk about that moment and how you were able to connect with her in that way?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she came and had three babies. So just to see, to support her as a new mom, you know, being a new mom is so exciting and it's such a special time. And just to be there to share that joy with her and to um see her little little ones, and she still shares pictures with me, and they're growing up so fast. But it was just such an honor and a privilege to care for her in a different way. Hey, this is a happy time. This is a happy occasion. We're celebrating life, we're celebrating a new life, and that that was really important too. It was special.
SPEAKER_05And the timing of everything that you were, she was your nurse when you were in the emergency department. You were the one there that day to care for her son and fight for him, and to be the one to have to deliver that news to her, to then continue working with her in the emergency department, for you to then move to mother baby and be there at the time that she had her children. Can you just talk about the timing and the being where you're meant to be?
SPEAKER_02Right. It's I yeah, I feel like there's divine intervention. Everything happens for a reason. You're placed here in this particular time for this particular reason. I truly believe in fate and things like that. And it was just a gift to me to to come full circle with her.
SPEAKER_05And what message do you think you would like to share with other nurses, other healthcare workers to talk about your worst day? And there's lots of difficult days, but that there's light at the end of the tunnel, there's beautiful things still ahead. Can you just talk about that hope that's there?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Um, what we nursing's so important. We are, we are the advocate for our patients, and we are the eyes and ears for the physicians, and we hold a huge amount of responsibility, and um we owe that to our patients. But it's it is such a fulfilling career. Um I always told my staff when I was over clinical units, if the decision you're making benefits the patient, you don't have to ask my permission. Does it benefit the patient and is it keep the patient safe? Yes, yes, proceed. Um, and that's just, you know, because patient safety is our number one, number one initiative here, all safety. Um, and but if it has a really positive impact on the patient as well, I'm all for that as well.
SPEAKER_05So do you feel like that's an overall sentiment here at UMC?
SPEAKER_02Well, we're the highest level of care in El Paso, and we're the highest level of care 200 and some mile radius. We're the only other level one is in Albuquerque, and I think the next one's Phoenix. Um so here we are in this this far west Texas town. We owe it to our not only to the Opaso citizens, but our neighbors to provide that care. And I think that's fantastic. Isn't it great to work for a hospital that doesn't turn any anyone away and who is considered, oh wow, you're bad, you need to go there. I mean, that's where I want to work. We're we're level four maternal as well, so we take all the complicated um maternal cases that other hospitals don't have the qualifications to care for. So we, you know, we've got our stroke program. We've got so many things to be proud of, and it's just like that's where I want to work. I want to work at the best place. I want to work at the highest level of care.
SPEAKER_05And you always had that. You talked about when you were in Memphis that you were the same way. You wanted to be where you could care for the most critically injured patients. Where do you think that comes from from you? Is it your childhood, Nancy? Where did that where did that desire to help people come from?
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm a bit of a busybody body and I'm nosy. Um so when someone we've had come in with a stroke, we'd treat them, we would stay, this is when I was in the suburban hospital, we would stabilize them and then we would fly them away. And I would be like, I wonder what happened. Like, I wanted to do more. Same way if they were a trauma. We would package them up, shh, fly them away, or the ambulance would take them away. And I thought, well, gosh, you know, they were going to Methodist downtown. I'm like, well, let me see if Methodist has any jobs. Let me look online. And sure enough, they did. And I applied, and that's that was really the almost two years I was there was really where I got my ER legs. Because we took care of strokes, uh, MBAs, traumas. We did it all. We there was a level one trauma center down the street from us that was always at capacity. So even though we weren't designated level one, we had we were a teaching facility like UMC, we had all the capacity. So we would take all of their overflow, unless it was a burn, because they they had an actual burn unit, but we were always taking their overflow because violent crime unfortunately is a thing in Memphis. So you would have, you know, a number of gunshot wounds, and we'd have to share them amongst the the trauma centers in downtown area. So, but yeah, I that's where I got my definitely got my ER legs.
SPEAKER_05And is there a moment or was there something someone said to you during that time that just stuck with you that maybe carries you through today? Or I know when you came to UMC, Sarah was talking about you were an experienced nurse from Memphis coming in and you were willing to teach. And can you just talk about maybe was there someone in Memphis who was your mentor, or someone who said something to you that stuck with you over the years?
SPEAKER_02One of the paramedics, it's the same situation in Memphis. We've had paramedics that would work for the fire department, or they and then they would come work at the hospital for extra shifts. And I remember, um, I cannot remember if it was my director or I think it might have been my director. I cannot remember who said this. But they said, if you see Nancy running, or if you see Nancy raising her voice, go, because it's bad. She's the coolest one here. Like, not cool, like I'm cool, but she's the most cool, level-headed, does not panic. If she's asking for help, or if she's running, she's yelling, follow her, because it's bad. So I thought that was kind of I didn't realize that I had that trait, I guess, until someone pointed it out to me.
SPEAKER_05And did you in any way in that moment, did it make you realize this is what I'm going to do? This is what you wanted to continue that. Did it make you feel because you were saying you're still getting your ER legs when you were in Memphis? Was that a moment of, oh hey, I I can do this? I'm in the right place. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm in the right place.
SPEAKER_05And then you mentioned paramedic. We we visited with um Jaime Vasquez, who's a paramedic here at UMC, and you worked with him during August 3rd, during the shooting here in El Paso. And we spoke with him, and he actually said that you were one of the first people. You were the first person that actually answered the phone that day when he called and he was able to speak with you to tell you what was happening. And I do want to just play for you what he said about that day.
SPEAKER_03We connected, she answered, and I and I told her Nancy the time, I don't I don't want to I don't want to get any kind of any kind of scare at you or anything, but uh we did have a shooting at Walmart. And there's multiple casualties. I have no idea how many right now because the incident just got dispatched. And she was like, um, she said, okay, I'm gonna um I told her that way you can make your calls and prepare and be ready for them when they get there.
SPEAKER_05And so hearing Jaime describe speaking to you on the phone, does it take you back to that moment? And you talked about if Nancy's yelling or running, you pay attention. Was did that instinct kicked in that day, or can you take us back to that day?
SPEAKER_02I just jumped up and put my scrubs on and got in the car. And the phone was ringing the entire trip in. And I remember parking in the parking garage and people, myself included, sprinting to the to the hospital. And then getting inundated with calls from my staff. Do you need help? I'm here. Do you want me to come in? Do you want me to come in? Um, multiple phone calls. Dealing with the public. We had to set up a staging area for the public. The Mexican consulate came, wanted to speak to me. He's like, I know you have citizenship. Of minor, you know, there's Mexican citizens that have been involved. But everyone was under a trauma name. We didn't know who we had them registered as trauma, you know, whatever they are. Um, so we weren't really sure who anyone was. I mean, we knew who we were treating, but we didn't exactly know, yes, that person in trauma bay five is this person, um, because we have to do that emergency registration. So yeah, it was for it's it was crazy. It was in insanity. And then later in the evening, putting back the trauma bays back together with the paramedics and the tech, we just went from trauma bay to trauma bay and restocked and cleaned up, and it was phenomenal. And were you with Jaime that day? Yeah, he had his hat on. I'll never forget he was still working. He got off shift with the fire department and then continued to work in the ED. And I remember him having his baseball cap on backwards. So I thought that was so funny. And we he just he didn't miss a beat. He was in his fire uniform, and he just, you know, came in and helped, and because he was already there. So he just jumped in after shift and and was helping.
SPEAKER_05And he told me that that experience inspired him to come full time at UBC. He felt that that was where he was most needed. And when we talk about being at the right place at the right time and the moments that connect us all together, and I go back to Memphis, Nancy, just from what you told me. Could could she believe what you have gone through and what you have overcome? I just I want to ask you if there's just anything you think younger Nancy would would say about if she could hear these stories and hear what you've done.
SPEAKER_02I wouldn't believe it if you told me because I never intended to get into nursing leadership. I was very content being a bedside nurse in the ED. Um, when the opportunity came to go into leadership 10 years ago, it was my husband, Patrick, who really encouraged me because we had always moved around for his career. He had a corporate career, and the then he would always had his officer career in the the New Mexico National Guard. He's which I am happy to say he is Colonel, Patrick, Colonel McGraw. Um, so back when this opportunity to be in nursing leadership in the ED, he really pushed me and encouraged me and said, you need to go for it. The boys are getting older. You've put your career on hold for me. Now it's you, now it's time for you to put your career at the forefront. And the boys are older, they don't need you, they don't need a babysitter. This take it, go for it. And I did.
SPEAKER_05And you've inspired your boys over the years. I know I got to speak with Hollis, and we heard from him, and he talked about just your strength, and he said that you always show up for him, no matter what. And that he said you're always on his side, always on his team. And that's the same sentiment that I've heard from every nurse and everyone that I've spoken to about you. And I know Sarah brought up those instances that you helped nurses find their place in the hospital. So, what would you say you would like your legacy to be or what you would like to leave behind?
SPEAKER_02Wow. Um, I always forgot to mention I was always on his case too. Just that um that I'm an advocate and I believe in nurses, and I feel like there's a place for everyone in nursing. And there um just that it costs nothing to care for people. It costs nothing to be kind. And um, like I said, it it comes back to you tenfold. So I truly believe the kinder I am, the more I mentor, the more I volunteer, that it's only gonna benefit me in in the aftermath.
SPEAKER_05And something you said to me, Nancy, has stuck with me. I even wrote it down when you mentioned it to me. You said, the more you give of yourself, the more you get back.
SPEAKER_02I believe that 100%, yes.
SPEAKER_05And it sounds like that has been the motto of your of your career.
SPEAKER_02So far it's working. Someone stick with the plan.
SPEAKER_05So well, Nancy, we appreciate you so much. Thank you for joining us today and telling us your story.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. I appreciate it anytime.
SPEAKER_05And we can't wait to see it. We've mentioned so many people during this podcast, and we're excited to just see where these threads continue to take us.